Obama is pissing me off. Seriously pissing me off. This whole ‘marriage is between one man and one woman thing’ (reiterated earlier this week by Obama in an interview about California’s recent Supreme Court decision on same-sex marriage) is, yes, pissing me off. Just in case you missed that I AM PISSED OFF.
What is his fucking problem? Where’s all his ‘leadership’? Where’s all the ‘hope’? Does he only want to lead hopeful straight people? I would like to slam this man’s head in the fridge door a few times.
Nicola Griffith 
His words are the words of a coward, not a leader as far as I’m concerned. The only thing I can think is that he is pandering to the conservatives in an effort to win their support. Asinine.I can’t say he gives me much hope. Once again we are left with the lesser of two evils, but sometimes I wonder. I don’t trust the guy, and I’m thinking dishonesty is seriously evil in this case.I’d like to see that fridge door action; I had a good laugh at the thought of it.
I certainly think his comments are very badly timed. And they make me think a great deal less of him.But ‘trust’ and ‘politician’ are not really words I’ve ever felt belonged in the same sentence.I’d hoped, though, that Obama was smarter than this. Ah, well.
Yes, trust was a poor choice of words. As if any of them could be ‘trusted’. What I meant about him goes deeper than that. I’ve had a bad feeling about him for a long time. I’ve been telling myself it was just a feeling with no basis in fact – to give him a chance, but it seems like the facts are leaking out. We’ll see.
No guts.All hat, no cattle.The Emperor has no clothes.And he’s the left-wing George Bush.Other than that, I like him a lot.EEW
Jennifer, EEW, well, I am cross with him for that ‘one man one woman’ crap, but he’s going to be the nominee. If I could vote for him, I would. But, oy, the letter I’d send him and his campaign…But I don’t want any vitriol in further comments. I want us to figure out what we can *do* to make him think this lgbtquia (quiltbag) stuff through instead of weaseling to bring in the independents.Any ideas?
Yes, well, I’ll be voting for him despite my reservations. Maybe he can be persuaded to change his stance on the quiltbag stuff AFTER he is in office. I’ll have to think about possible methods of encouragement. One thing I’ve already been thinking about is writing Carolyn Kennedy. She seems to have his ear. More at al later date.
Firstly, I canna gi the link to work so I can read the comments he made for myself. Secondly, his website claims to be super responsive to emails and comments from the peoplery. So lets see if that’s true.Obama says that he personally believes that “marriage is between a man and a woman” but also says that “equality is a moral imperative” for gay and lesbian Americans. He advocates the complete repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) because “federal law should not discriminate in any way against gay and lesbian couples, which is precisely what DOMA does.” He supports granting civil unions for gay couples, and in 2006 he opposed a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. In March 2007, Obama initially avoided answering questions about a controversial statement by a U.S. general that “homosexual acts” are “immoral,” but Obama later told CNN’s Larry King, “I don’t think that homosexuals are immoral any more than I think heterosexuals are immoral.” So there. God, it’s like Robert Redford in the Candidate. Slowly he turns . . .Or maybe we should accept the fact that we force this double speak on the candidates by constantly making them aware of how everybody is watching every thing they say or not say, do or don’t do. Politics forces a candidate into this double sided language. We just have to be smart enough to see the truth behind the equivocation. If there in fact is one.
rhbee, I fixed the link. It should work.Politicians of all stripes, i.e., all politicians of a certain level, rely on their voters to ‘interpret’ their words and read into them what pleases/encourages the voter. I’m tired of it. I want plain speaking. I’m tired of pols pandering to the ‘working class’ electorate (please note I use quote marks deliberately) and their perceived simple grasp of world affairs. I’m tired of voters being condescended to. All the pols do it. I want them to simply (ha!) speak plainly. It’ll never happen, I know that, so I just have to be Miz Ranty Pajamas about it sometimes–makes me feel better.
And now that I’ve read his comments again, it seems to me that he is saying that his personal beliefs, like yours and mine are, personal. No one is bound by them but the person who has them. Meanwhile, it follows naturally, that if he believes a person has a right to his or own beliefs that still doesn’t make it morally right to enforce those beliefs on others.
rhbee: he’s saying lesbians and gay are should be separate but equal, that when we partner it isn’t really marriage, not like those nice straight folks, because Real Marriage can only be between one man and one woman. There’s no other way to read that, in my opinion, than he saying queers simply aren’t as good as straights, we’re different, and should be treated differently.
I think that’s evidence of cowardice: not standing up for what one really believes. I am sensitive to the tightrope that politicians must walk, but I cannot presume to think I know what they really think by reading between the lines. For that matter, words sometimes don’t count for much as we saw with Bill Clinton and “don’t ask, don’t tell.” In any case, it is actions that count. Obama has told us what he wants to do with this. We have to create an atmosphere in our society where politicians can make a stand for our rights without committing political suicide.An obvious, easy thing to do is speak out locally/regionally. Write to our ‘representatives’ in government. Money is a huge factor in getting legislation passed and people elected. Donate if possible.Here are some links:<>http://www.eqca.org<><>http://www.hrcactioncenter.org/actioncenter/home.html<><>http://www.matthewshepard.org<>Hand written letters are supposed to be best, but here’s an online option too:<>https://forms.house.gov/wyr/welcome.shtml<><>http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/How_to_contact_senators.htm<>Other online message senders:petition-<>http://www.hrcactioncenter.org/campaign/millionformarriageac<>to your governor-<>http://www.truemajority.org/Equality<>From the sound of things, this is not a big issue right now for most voters anyway. People are more worried about the economy, the war, and maybe the enviornment (hell, so am I). So maybe this is a good time to be able to slide in a decent civil rights bill for lgbtquia.Oh, and I can’t let my earlier spelling error go – I meant Caroline Kennedy.On a more personal level, we can just get the work out to people we talk to in our day; help them to notice/realize/care about what is really at stake here.And ranting can do that. Ranting can be a good thing. Now I’ve had mine
Jennifer,Thank you very much for the resource list.Nicola, two things, first another thought I had which doesn’t bring him much credit either is that he is really saying “I am not gay.” Second, I linked your post to http://www.jtaplin.wordpress.com so some of those folks might drop by.
Hey Nicola,This is Diane Hughes in Atlanta. When last we met, it was probably at the Science Fiction and Mystery Book Shop or at your home when you and Kelly gave parties. I was the partner of the owner of the bookstore. I would prefer to email you these comment, but that doesn’t seem possible right now as you have protected yourself from unsolicited email, as indeed you have every right to do and should do so. I have recently read your most recent book about Aud which was called “Always,” I believe. I do very much enjoy these books as I have enjoyed everything you have written especially “Slow River,” which I recommend to folks all the time.But I have a serious complaint and quibble. I am a Southern Woman. I am bisexual. I have been involved in the GLBT movement since 1972, and I do not fit into any of the stereotypes you describe about Southern women. While reading the book, I became more and more exasperated and offended at each, numerous descriptions of “Southern Women” and how “they” behave. Excuse me, but as a “Southern Woman,” I and many of my friends do NOT fit the stereotypes you so very blithely threw out.We do not live for chat about clothes, gossip, children, house decorations, and/or whatever nonsense you described. We do not ALL hesitate to speak our minds and/or tell the truth.How would you like if someone wrote a novel in which British woman were described as always being non-emotional, non-personal, always stiff upper lipped,and uptight and well-mannered beyond belief?I really did enjoy the book, but by the time I had finished reading it, I was almost screaming at all the stereo-typed allusions to Southern women and how we behave. It was beyond annoying. It was utterly insulting. I don’t want or need any apology. I just wish you would be more aware in the future of you labels of other women. Unless of course you want to be insulting to an entire group of women, many of whom are just as honest, upright, and blunt as you are.Warm regards,diane
Diane, yes, I remember you. Sorry you didn’t like <>Always<>.In fact I frequently have to sit through thoughtless stereotyping of English people from Americans, in their film, conversation, and books. I usually just sigh and cope.Sometimes the stereotype isn’t too far from the truth. That’s how cliche becomes cliche; it has something to say that’s true. None of my so-called stereotyping was thoughtless. As with all my work, every detail was carefully thought out and there for a reason. ‘Thoughtless’ is a rather specific insult to an artist. It’s one I reject in this case.I stand by my portrayal of these particular Southern women. I met women very like those in that self-defense class. I went to their houses. I met their friends. I listened to their chat. Do they represent all Southern women in your wondrous variety? No. Because that, of course, would be impossible. And because that, of course, was not the point.If you feel the need to send me email in the future, simply look in the right sidebar, where it says ‘send me a question’ and follow the directions. The only thing I feel the need to protect myself from is spambots.
rhbee, I’ll look forward to greeting any visitors from Taplin’s blog.
Well, I’m a southern woman who happens to be a lesbian, and I was not in the least offended by the characters in ALWAYS. No more offended than I was whilst growing up in the company of women very similar to those described therein. I may have been somewhat uncomfortable when reading about them, but only because the characters were so real to me that I remembered how uncomfortable and different I felt growing up among women like that.I never thought that the message in the book was that ALL southern women are like that. But it has been my observation that lots of them are.I found ALWAYS to be a very thoughtful and insightful novel while still managing to be highly enertaining. I continue to be amazed at Nicola’s ability to see/understand both the inner workings of people’s minds as well as the world which shapes them.
I grew up in the South so I have some familiarities to bring to this discussion, which by the way should be in another thread since it way off track except for the being pissed off attitude.But then in my early teens I moved to California where I was constantly amazed by how the manners that had become second nature in the South were instantly rewarded by kindnesses and comfort from the California girls I subsequently met.I also read Always, it was the first of Nicola’s books for me and I was instantly memerized by the tone of the writing and the intensity of the descriptions. I especially, as I’ve mentioned to her, liked the section of the book about the self-defense classes. The care with which she took to describe so many characters in a relatively small time and space frame made me able to see them and know them for their choices and actions. They were a varied and yet connected lot. Not stereotyped but identifiable as types amongst all the other possiblities that I remember southern ladies provide.I have even suggested that this section be made available as a unique handbook for self-defence strategies for all. After all, that is one thing that the title of the book is about. Always be prepared.And finally, I don’t believe Nicola ever claimed that she was writing a portrayal of all southern women, just the ones in the class. So the offense that was taken actually seems to me to be the fault of the reader who now is claiming that she can speak for all southern women because she maybe recognized herself in there somewhere.
jennifer, thanks for your input.rhbee, you have a point re the thread-jacking. I’m going to see if I can turn comments on this thread off without losing what we have so far.Also, on a more general note, I prefer that we not ascribe motives to other discussion participants; that can be a very slippery path.I wrote this post when I was cross with something Obama said, and expressed my irritation–to me that’s what it is, a <>passing<> though vast irritation with a person’s choice. Not a heaping of vituperation on someone’s head. But it’s seems to have called forth some less than stellar responses, so I don’t think I’ll Post While Cross again anytime soon.