I don’t know much about dogs; my sister had one when I was seven, but I’m a cat person. Nothing against dogs, I’ve just always lived in cities, which I think is a hostile environment for large dogs (and small dogs, in my experience–small though it is–tend to yap). So, regarding dogs: utterly ignorant. I’ve been researching the 7th century for a while now (for my Hild novel), but find I still don’t know much about it. So, in this regard too: utterly ignorant. Now I’m faced with writing about dogs in the 7th century and my mind has gone terrifyingly blank.
Here’s how I imagine the dog situation in the north of England circa 627:
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There are herd dogs–large, loyal protectors of flocks (sheep, cows, goats, maybe even geese) that run with the flock to protect it from predators but don’t herd the flock under commands from the shepherd/cowherd/goosegirl. These dogs (sometimes just one, occasionally a pair) would spend much more time with the beasts than the humans. They eat, sleep, even play with the cows/sheep. Perhaps they were imprinted as puppies and mostly think they *are* cows/sheep.
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There are sight hounds, coursers and so on, like deerhounds–probably largely under royal or at least ‘noble’ control.
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Bulldogs would control large animals going to slaughter.
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There are hounds of war: huge things that perhaps wear spiked collars and are trained to do one thing: kill. These would most likely be kept in royal kennels because they might not be safe to allow anywhere else.
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Perhaps isolated farmsteads or small settlements would have a couple of dogs-of-all-trades.
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Perhaps people would form bonds with some of these dogs. Perhaps that would be discouraged. Perhaps not.
I read about Cuchulain and his hound, and I wonder, Did they care for each other? Or was the dog just a tool–an important and precious tool, like a sword, but not something to devote feeling to? If dogs were, to some degree, pets, how would they be trained? Would women be allowed to keep dogs? Would they want to?
Hild has basically had a puppy forced upon her by the queen, Æthelburh, who wants a dog for herself (I’ve yet to work out why) and thinks that if at least one other female at the royal vill–even a child, like Hild–has a dog, Æthelburh won’t seem like such a foreign weirdo.
So now I’m trying to figure out how it all works: what would the dog (a bitch, I’ve decided) look like? Would it have a leash? How would it be trained? I’m thinking a cross between a wolfhound and a Molossian-type herd dog–big, but not as heavy as a Molossian or as tall as a wolfhound–that has protective but not herding instincts, with an urge (though not an overwhelming one) to chase prey. It would hit maturity around 18 months.
So my question for both dog-lovers and medievalists is: does any of that make sense? Do you have suggestions?
I was a cat person too — well, I still love cats — until a dog came into my life about a year ago. Getting to know the dog has opened my eyes to a lot of animal behavior I previously never noticed. It’s fascinating to watch how dogs interact with other dogs — whether they try to protect their owner or not, who shows dominance, who literally rolls over, etc. For the purposes of Hild, I would say that the dog does not have to have a leash most of the time. Reasons to keep your dog on a leash: leash laws (which they might not have in the 7th century), traffic, to prevent them from running after the scent of a deer (my dog does this in the woods). Otherwise, the dog would obviously prefer to run free.>>And, if you have the opportunity, you should go to a nearby dog park with a friend who has a dog, and have him/her explain to you what the dogs are doing. That could be very useful.
No, no leashes except for training and times when other important dogs are arriving e.g. a visiting dignitary and his dogs. (Wouldn’t do to have one’s dog savage a friendly king’s beastie…)>>I have in fact watched dogs a lot in parks, and have read a fair bit about dominance behaviours etc., but watching with an expert i.e. dog lover is probably a zillion times more informative.
From what I know of the herding dog group, I don’t think they would play with the animals that they were in charge of herding. I think there would be a distinct “us versus them” mentality. I know it’s a silly example, but the movie “Babe” shows a good depiction of sheep’s relationship to the herding dogs.>>I would expect that deep bonds would exist between humans and dogs, especially if they had a high level of interaction. I had read before that dogs slept with their masters to provide additional warmth on cold nights (a three dog night). An exception to this might be a large pack of hounds that would be used to hunt foxes. Those dogs might be regarded as just another animal, like horses, rather than a companion animal.>>I have a very interesting small book called “Four Centuries of Dog Collars at Leeds Castle” which I purchased at Leeds Castle. The collars vary from very primitive to extremely ornate. However, none of the collars in the book are even close to existing in the time period that your novel takes place.>>Dogs do understand when their masters are happy, sad, angry, etc. I love my dog more than a lot of people that I know, even family members. She’s provided me with a lot of comfort and companionship. She gets me out of the house for walks when I might be too lazy or depressed to do it by myself.
There are 2 kinds of herd dogs–the kind that bunch/drive/direct the herd under command from the herder (like the collies in ‘Babe’) and then there are the live with/grew up protector dogs that sort of look like the animals they’re protecting. They mingle with them. They only split from them when they smell predators; then they get between the flock and the wolf/bear/wildcat. This kind of dog might very well play, as a puppy, with the herd animals, IMO.>>I’ve read interesting studies about dogs being able to understand human intent, to understand pointing gestures etc. that, for example, wolves don’t.
Marginalia will be your friend here. There are illustrations of dogs in many manuscripts. I’ve seen hounds hunting but surprisingly many lap dogs. I think they helped keep people warm in winter. I doubt that people used leashes for the most part. And in castles I bet dogs, like people, often defecated where ever. After all that’s what servants, slaves and such are for.>>This is way too early for you but ever seen that lovely mosaic from Pompeii of the barking dog in “play” pose (down on the front legs with butt in the air) and the words “Cave canem”? That dog is on a leash. But it dates from before 76AD.>>Anyway. I remember reading some rules for nuns that said they could keep a small dog. Michael Drout would probably remember what is a vague recollection to me. Also have you checked out the Bede’s World site? They have a farm and houses and know a bit about animals at the time. Farm animals, like people, were smaller then and I suppose that would be true of dogs as well. The bigger the dog the more trouble to feed it.>>So would Hild have the means to feed a largish dog? Or would she have one that kept her feet warm and chased the mousies from her bed? One that would be satisfied with sharing her plate?>>I’d think more along the lines of a very small terrier myself. So many terrier breeds come from England anyway.>All best,>Anon
P.S. I’m a dog and cat person. I had to put my rather large lab/rott mix to sleep earlier this year. He was almost 14. Right now I’m being bothered by two polydactyl orange cats. (get off the keyboard!)
shelly rae, oh, I’m sorry to hear about your dog. Our cat (we’d had him nearly 17 yrs) died in June.>>Yep, I know that mosaic.>>Hild was royal. As a child (she’s not quite a teenager when she gets this dog) I’m guessing she had the means to do just about anything she wants.>>I hear you on the size issue…and I think Hild’s first dog will be largeish, an escort/guardian of a kind so she can roam on her own.
There’s debate about whether dogs understand human nonverbal communication better than wolves or chimps. An article in Sept 29, 2008 New Scientist (Wolves make dog’s dinner out of domestication theory) attributes the behavior to classical conditioning. I’ve seen decent data to support the former idea, too. Stephen Budiansky’s The Truth About Dogs is a fun read that discusses the domestication issue, asserting that dogs are the ultimate con artists.>>I believe it’s reasonable to assume fondness and the possibility of a strong bond between humans and working dogs, not just pet dogs. To achieve the remarkable diversification of breeds, people had to pay a lot of attention to individual animals. >>Herding dogs that work in conjunction with a person (border collies, Australian terriers, sheepdogs) require a lot of training. I’ve never seen a trainer (of any species) who isn’t fond of his/her animals, especially the most talented ones. >>I suspect you’d see different attitudes about dogs based on class. Those who worked directly with dogs would have a more utilitarian view, those who only knew them as pets would be more romantic and likely to anthropomorphize their behaviors. (A friend who’s a vet reports such attitudinal differences between her rural and city clients). >>As to the training of pets, I suspect the basics: come, sit, fetch — because they’re useful. >>I don’t check your blog too often, but if you have animal behavior questions, feel free to email. If I can’t answer it, I probably know someone who can. And it’s more fun than my freelance work, which I must return to.>>Jill
jill, I missed that NS article. I’ll look it up. Thank you.>>I think we’re on the same page regarding basic commands and the working dog/pet owner divide. (I remembered that from reading all those James Herriot books as a child–loved those things.)>>Good luck with the freelancing.
Hey Nicola,>>Seemed like there were a few good articles on the topic in New Scientist, so it might be worth mucking about. I really loved the idea of dogs as masters of human nonverbal communication, though, so was sad to see the contrary data. >>Project’s going well. Today was a bit of a slog: mood disorders, suicide, and schizophrenia. So you can see why I’d rather talk about dogs. >>Jill
I am a dog lover. Some dogs. There are small dogs and large dogs. Smart dogs and not-so-smart dogs. I like smart dogs. Can’t abide stupid, yappy little dogs.>>When I was growing up, we always had a dog. We had a small dog once – and English bulldog. Dumb, ugly dog that slobbered in all over the place, but sweet. The only dog we ever had we had to keep penned up most of the time; she was too dumb to find her way home. We always lived in a small town with large yards or next to fields where a dog could run all day. Yards with no fences and houses with doors that were never locked. No leashes. The only problem was cars. Three of our dogs got run over by cars. How stupid is that. Two others died of old age. My first encounter with death/loss. One I can’t remember what happened to (it was a basset hound – really dumb dog), and another ‘disappeared’ – so I was told. I learned a lot from having dogs.>>I don’t have a dog now, but that’s only because I don’t have the space, and for many years I worked such long hours that there was no way I could take care of one.>>The best dog we ever had was a border collie (the Babe kind of dog). Actually he was a mix between a border collie and an English shepherd. Even better because he was not too inbred and bigger than a typical border collie – but he had the black and white coloring that is typical of them. Walter was a brilliant dog. He never had to be taught much; he just understood. That dog learned words, gestures, emotions. Walter, go get the paper, whatever – I’m telling you that dog understood almost everything. He loved to play frisbee more than anything and he was fast; it was great fun to run around and toss a frisbee up for him to catch mid-air. He would’ve done anything to protect us. No one could ever come into our house if we weren’t there. That dog helped me through some tough years; he was my best friend. I loved that dog, and he loved me. He died of old age several years after I left. I saw him once before he died, and he was in pain and apparently had dementia. He didn’t know me, growled at me when I petted him. I was devastated. >>Dogs are the best. Always faithful, always forgives you, and always glad to see you, always trying to cheer you up if you are down.>>I still remember a line from Michael Douglas in the movie “Wall Street”. After some discussion about life as a trader and friendship, he advised Charlie Sheen, “If you need a friend, get a dog.”>>Damn, I wish I had a dog now.>>A lot of farms have border collies or other herder-type dogs on them these days. I think most herder-type dogs tend to bond more with their owner/trainer than the animals they herd. It’s my guess that they don’t think they are sheep; I think they know they are much smarter than sheep.>>I have seen men that own lots of hunting-type dogs and use them mostly as tools. They are maybe more fond of some than others, but they don’t bond with them the way people do with pets or with herd dogs. Those kinds of dogs typically aren’t as smart as herder dogs.>>I have known some cats well. Lived with one for awhile, and she was an amazing cat; I really felt there was someone looking back at me from those eyes sometimes. But I will always prefer a smart, emotionally healthy dog – a dumb dog, no thanks. Dogs are more trouble, but they do a lot and they give back a lot.
I have cats and a mixed Border Collie. I also had for 13 years the most wondeful Pembroke Corgi. He and I had an unexplicable bond and I swear he could ready my very thoughts. He was my protector and my ears in the night. I had to put him down 18 months ago because of cancer. And, although I love my new dog, it is just not the same “connection.” >>The Corgi from Pembrokeshire is a breed of considerable antiquity. and traces its origin back to A.D. 1107. It is a herding dog.>>You may also want to refer to The Ravens of Avalon. I speaks throughout the story of Boudica’s hounds,and especially one called Bogle, as comforter and protector of her and her children. It never speaks to the dog being confined in any way but always without fail following her command. Some dogs do this. 10 month old Border Collies I am not so sure of! I have told my daughters if they cannot find me to look for a newly dug hole in the back yard and dirt on Rocket’s muzzle…
The book title is simply Ravens of Avalon. My error.
jill, I’ve had a good look around NS, and caught up, and though interesting none of the articles are particularly helpful. Sigh.>>jennifer, I have a feeling I could really enjoy a dog–if we had land. I just don’t believe in keeping dogs in the city. So many of them seem to become neurotic.>>linda, I bet you anything the Corgis of today look nothing like the heel-nipping herders of nine hundred years ago. I think the Kennel Club (and other breeding organisations) have a lot to answer for. As for following another novel–well, thanks for the suggestion but that’s how cliches are born. I prefer to go to the sources and then make up my own fictions :)
Nicola:>>I am sure that Corgis of today do NOT look like they did in the tenth century no more than I would resemble my ancestors from antiguity. Corgis may have looked like Vallhunds which ended up in Pembrokeshire with the arrival of the Vikings. >>I also did not mean for you to access another book as a cliche resource. I was a bit surprised by your comment. I believe that everything we see, feel, read, experience, goes into a collective of knowledge from which one creates new knowledge or, in your production, fiction. >>And what you “go to” as “the” sources is still someone’s “recording” of his/her collective knowledge gathered from another source and so on. How do you maintain a “trusim” of the line? Does anyone have a pure “stand alone” thought?
I’m a cat person, but my sister is a dog junkie. She’s kept as many as nine simultaneously. My mom and her also own a ranch and at some point had 400 heads of cattle, between cows and goat and sheep. The dog crew was as follows: two German Shepherds, two Blue Heelers, two Andalusian Mouse-Hunting Dogs, one Husky, one French Poodle. >>They were all in love with my sister, even the strictly-herd dogs. You would see her walking around followed by the pack of mismatched dogs. I find the notion of dogs becoming imprinted to the cattle a bit unlikely. Even puppies will usually prefer their human owners to their own mother. >>The German Shepherds were good to the animals as long as my sister didn’t approach them. They are very jealous dogs. They bit a few sheep because my sister was talking friendly to or petting them. Every German Shepherd I’ve met is extremely loyal to its human owner. >>The Blue Heelers or Australian Cattle Dogs were the best herd dogs ever. My sister isn’t much for training, and yet they performed amazingly well. I guess their herding instincts are pretty strong. They didn’t seem to look at the cattle as family or friends, but more like toys. As if keeping them together was a game. They like working in pairs. Sometimes the German Shepherds would join in, but they were so bossy they would sometimes end up fighting with the poor Blue Heelers, who were just doing their job. >>The Husky and the French Poodle usually stayed around the house. The poodle was a handy security alarm. Yap-yap-bark-yap. Blue Heelers are not the best guard dogs, they are rather friendly to strangers. German Shepherds are too vicious as guard dogs, they will bite your sister who is visiting from Canada even if they do know her vaguely. Jealous, jealous dogs. The Husky was rather apathetic towards humans and animals alike. He was probably a philosopher. >>The Andalusian Mouse-Hunting Dogs stayed around the chicken pen. They would sometimes hang out with the bigger dogs and perhaps that’s where they picked up some herding-skills. They also played at keeping the chicken confined to one area and guarded the eggs against rats. But again, they didn’t seem to do it out of loyalty toward the chicken, but because it was part of a game that would earn them praise from my sister. Once, I was reading by the pen and not much happened for hours, so I guess the little dogs got bored and started chasing the chicken around, sending them on a frenzy. They even bit one of them. No serious injuries, but the chick did have a limp for a couple of days. Toys. >>This is all just my subjective and first-hand observation of the dog dynamics in that ranch.
linda, when commenters say they are ‘surprised’ and then SHOUT at me, I tend to think they are upset. So I think you’re upset. If you’re upset, I prefer you to say so, and then say why. I can make guesses, of course, but guessing without body language tends to lead to trouble. So please feel free to explain why you’re upset, or to explain that you’re not upset but why you shouted.>>karina, thanks for that. The competition-for-attentions thing hadn’t occurred to me.
Hmmm. Nicola. I am working on a flower bed out back. After a break of iced tea I will return to unloading sandstone blocks for the border and contemplate where the wheels flew off the communication wagon.>>I will reread my response,and yours. My thoughts will come later rather than send you a knee jerk reply. I have to ponder on it a bit.>>BTW it is a beautiful day in South Texas.
linda, enjoy your tea and day and flowerbed. It’s also a lovely day here…
Allright now. I have enjoyed my iced tea (yes, the vile kind from a jar) and the day in the yard. The flower bed went well. Rocket Dog has a whole new area to bury her treasures. :)>>Nicola, by my very nature I do not shout,nor raise my voice,nor display anger. >>I DO,however, get upset,but rarely. Actually, two weeks ago I was VERY upset with my brother for wanting to give me a new HDTV and did it anyway in spite of my telling him NO. But my “upset” comes with brooding silence. Hence my high blood pressure.>>For you to interpret my words as “shouting” was a puzzlement to me. I will simply say I was waiting on my morning coffee (Southern Pecan) to finish brewing. Perhaps that may explain the tone of my reply? >>I have reread my post, twice, as well as yours. I am not sure what I would be upset about and if I were, I would just say so. >>I honestly do not see what your are seeing in the words. But, I respect you enough to accept that you must see something that perhaps I don’t and will let it go at that.
linda, in internet parlance using all caps is considered to be the equivalent of shouting.>>I’m glad you’re not upset. Thanks for clarifying.
This is a fascinating topic! Nicola, I recommend 2 books:>><>The Lost History of the Canine Race: Our 15,000-Year Love Affair with Dogs<> by Mary Elizabeth Thurston>>and>><>The Pawprints of History: Dogs and the Course of Human Events<> by Stanley Coren. >>The Thurston book is a 300-page overview of the role of dogs in social history, including a chapter on dogs in feudal society and a chapter on dogs of war. The Coren book is more specific anecdotes about specific people, so might prove less useful to you. I’m not a historian, just a dog nut, but to my eyes it looks like these books are appropriately researched and documented non-fiction.>>As for herd dogs who <>live<> with the herd, the modern example that comes to mind is the Kuvasz… right now I’m looking at Toyoharu Kojima’s <>Legacy of the Dog<>, which only has a little breed info, because I don’t seem to own the book other book I was thinking of. I do not know if dogs like this play with the sheep, but most dogs *love* to play, so I think it’s possible. I also think an adult sheep could teach a Kuvasz puppy what IS and what ISN’T its business, which might make it easier for that dog to live in harmony with the herd throughout its life.>>I doubt dogs would have been on leash very often — excepting hungry war dogs who are trained to attack and slaughter. Even when meeting strange dogs, dogs that are socialized properly from a young age are better at controlling their own behavior without a leash (I can reference some dog behavior books if you want more details on that). It’s only modern cities, cars, leash laws, and a lack of experience in how to behave without a leash that keeps dogs from learning appropriate interactions and makes leashes necessary in the first place.>>Finally, I second Malinda Lo’s suggestion to get a dog nut in your area to take you to a dog park and narrate everybody’s behavior. Wish I lived nearby…
I’m still thinking about all your dog questions. I went and read about Cuchulain. It seems like Culann did care for the hound, it was more than just a precious tool. I’m often amazed of the bonds apathetic/ruthless people can form with dogs. Esmeralda is an example. She refuses to get another dog because she almost couldn’t survive the death of her Talula. It was that painful. But she’s rather good at getting over the death of friends and extended family. She can laugh at cruel jokes/situations involving humans, but she will fume and weep if the victim is a dog. >>I’d imagine the general scene for dogs back then would be closer to how dogs are viewed now in many Third World countries. Canadian and US dogs are treated like precious children. In Mexico, there’s many street dogs with miserable lives and missing limbs and eyes and are rotting away with skin diseases. Even house dogs have miserable lives. But hey, street kids also have miserable lives and missing limbs and eyes and are rotting away with skin diseases in Mexico. >>A lot of people down there get pets because their children want them, then the children realize a pet is too much work so the poor dog ends up abandoned on the roof (many die of dehydration) or lives the rest of its time chained to a post. While forming bonds between humans and animals is not discouraged, there are so very few examples and social regulations around these interactions that dogs are commonly perceived as disposable creatures. It’s so sad. >>Some street dogs do form packs, but house dogs are almost always hostile towards other dogs. Again, dogs in First World countries are so well socialized and trained it blows my mind. It seems almost unnatural that they get along so well with dogs that are complete strangers. Also, I would never even come near a dog that doesn’t know me very well, let alone come up to a stranger and pat it on the head the way people do here in Vancouver all the time. Eek! One of my cousins lost her leg because a neighbor’s dog bit her. When I was a kid, I witnessed an old lady bleed to death because her own dog bit her on the jugular. >>I imagine royal dogs would be highly trained, so no leash necessary for those. You are right that some dogs would definitely have to be kept on a leash. Especially those that spend most of their time with humans, not just the fighting dogs. This is expected in Mexico, and not just to prevent them from getting ran over by traffic. >>In the small city where she now lives, my sister has to walk her dogs on a leash, and so do all her neighbors. When they run into each other, they must stay on opposite sidewalks. There was a negligent neighbor that let his Bull Dog go loose on purpose and he laughed when it ran toward Kuma (one of my sister’s German Shepherds) and harassed her. My sister had to pull Kuma back and get between the dogs and kick them to prevent them from going at each other. Not safe. She begged the guy to put his dog on a leash, eventually she yelled and she cried and she got tired of the silly game after enduring months of it. The next time the Bull Dog came running to pick a fight, she let go of the leash and it took Kuma all of thirty seconds to bite the dog’s neck and kill it. *sigh* Then the neighbor wasn’t laughing anymore. But he couldn’t sue because all the other neighbors said they’d testify that his dog was always running loose and picking up fights and that the dead dog’s owner was a jerk. >>This is something a dog lover in the US or Canada won’t be able to tell you, because their idea of dogs is that they are reasonably tame and well socialized creatures.
A bit late on this . . . but there’s a great “references cited” (?) at the end of “Merle’s Door” by Ted Kerasote. Most of them have to do with dog history, dog learning (they learn a lot by observing other dogs) and human/dog relation. Lots and lots and lots of them . . . The book itself is the most moving biography of an animal I’ve ever read (I was crying so hard in the last couple of chapters as Merle was dieing I had to put the book away – the lady in the seat next to me on the plane thought I was having a breakdown or something!). Kerasote blends all kinds of dog history and science into it – and really pushes alternate theories of dog/human relationship building and “training”. It may be worth a look for you. >>Me, I’d make it Anatolian-like. Not a perfect pick, but regal, protective and fairly large. I guess it depends on the purpose for Hild receiving a dog in the first place.>>With dogs in it, the story can only be better!
nicole, those look like great references, thank you.>>karina, I remember the first I went to Greece (when I was 16) and saw the way dogs and cats were treated. I understood then that Europe and N. America (and probably Australia and New Zealand) have a fundamentally different attitude to pets/domestic animals than the rest of the world. I just have to make up my mind which side Hild’s on…>>robin, yes, I’m leaning towards large and grave myself for this first dog, with perhaps smaller ones as she gets older. Or maybe she’ll switch to otters or ravens or some damn thing. But, yes, for the first time in my fiction (apart from my very first short story, “Down the Path of the Sun,” and I’m not sure that counts), there’s a dog.
Can she be on both? I mean, start on the “What a pest!” side of the fence and then have Hild develop a strong bond with the dog.
Can she be on both? Oh, yep, that’s what’s happening right now. I just don’t know how it ends…
Regarding the “look” of the dog, a Spitz-type dog may be what you’re looking for.>>Spitz dogs have many of the qualities you mentioned: they were primarily bred as hunting dogs, but were also considered “farm” dogs expected to protect home, family, and livestock. They are medium sized dogs.>>A good example of a Spitz dog is the Norwegian Elkhound, which has ancient roots and retains many of the qualities I mentioned previously. < HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Elkhound" REL="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Elkhound<> and < HREF="http://www.elkhound.net/historyelkhound.htm" REL="nofollow">http://www.elkhound.net/historyelkhound.htm<> are interesting reads.>>Spitz dogs are geographically associated with Scandinavia. My 7th century European history is limited, but surely there had to be some trade in the midst of all the pillaging…
Why do you want Hild to have a dog?>>Duff
stacy, hmmn, I wonder if a Spitz-type dog would be too hot in England a lot of the time. But, yes, definitely something this size and temperament. And I like its lifespan…
Duff, I have no idea why. It just…happened. These things do in first drafts. Every day a new adventure.
It seems that as Hild figures out what she wants with a dog, then you’ll know what kind of dog.>>You sound pretty right on target with your thoughts on what the relationships with dogs could have been in the 7th century. In fact, I don’t think their rolls in humans lives has changed all that much. Ranchers and farmers tend to keep their dogs outside as working dogs. Many people treat their dogs as part of their family. I particularly like the idea of the dog being part of the sheep flock or herd. You’re idea of imprinting. I think there is at least one breed today where this occurs. Can’t remmebr the name of the breed. Big light colored dog if I’m remembering right. >>One thing though, I know a number of the “third world” places where dogs are part of their families and are very important to the protection of the people in the villages. So I think that’s not just a European thing. >>I am primarily a dog person, and elephant, and spotted hyena, and whales. Dogs primarily for practical reasons. :) I like cats but am allergic. Can’t work on this right now but I want to test my allergies out to see if this is still true. >>I love that you share your Hild experiences with us.>>duff
duff, I know what kind of dog. Writing posts like this and reading the responses help me realise just how much I do know. Whenever someone says something that contradicts my vision I find myself getting cross. It’s a clue that more is set in stone than I knew :) Very helpful.>>I’m allergic to dogs. I suspect to cats, too, though I wouldn’t let them test me for that: I had cats, I didn’t want to know.